Better Business Bureau – A useless institution ?
For the last many years I had very high regards for Better Business Bureau. When I used the word “Better Business Bureau”, it sounded to me like a semi judicial institution that safeguards the consumer interests and help them when do are when companies do not provide them with fair hearing.
If you look at the BBB logo – it says – “Start With Trust”. And this trust is what is there in persons mind. They think that if they are not properly treated by companies they can trust on BBB and have their grievances addressed from Better Business Bureau. I was one of those persons.
The Better Business Bureau (BBB) was founded in 1912. It is a corporation consisting of several private business franchises of local BBB organizations based in the United States and Canada, which work together through the Council of Better Business Bureaus (CBBB). As per wiki – “The BBB goal is to foster a fair and effective marketplace, so that buyers and sellers can trust each other.”
How does BBB work
According to wiki – “BBBs gather and report information on business reliability, alert the public to frauds against consumers and businesses, provide information on ethical business practices, and act as mutually trusted intermediaries between consumers and businesses to resolve disputes. News media frequently turn to the CBBB and local BBBs as expert sources of news about scams and consumer issues.”
What if a consumer has an issue
The BBB does have a dispute resolution system. The procedures for dispute resolution are established by the Council of the Better Business Bureaus. This in turn is implemented by local BBBs. According to the wiki -”disputes can be resolved through mediation; when appropriate, low or no-cost arbitration may also be offered and provided through the BBB. The BBB acts as a neutral party when providing dispute resolution services.”
What happens in practice
In practise there is nothing like “mediation or low or no-cost arbitration”. If you have a grievance, you complain to BBB. What does BBB do ? The Better Business Bureau forwards it to the local BBB unit. And local BBB starts investigations ? It starts mediation ? Absolutely no. All the loca BBB does it forwards your complain to the concerned company. It gives two weeks of time to the company to respond. The company can respond anything it wishes. The company may even respond just one liner -”This is according to our terms and conditions”. The better Business Bureau, does not even read you or the companies reply. All it does it that it checks if your reply is with 700 characters. Note 700 characters – not 700 word. You can not write anything more than 700 characters. Their online system does this check. And it will not tell you automatically.
So the company replies back with a curt reply. And then what does BBB does. Nothing. It just forward you the reply. You are dissatified. You thought you made a very good case against the company. And you wanted BBB’s support or at least BBB’s acknowdedgement that the case deserves merit and attention. No. BBB is not at all concerned about it. BBB just forwards the reply to you. You can then again make a reply. And BBB then again forwards it to the company against which you have grievance. And then again 2 weeks of waiting time. The company may or may not reply. If it does reply, you get the reply from the company which may be a curt reply for half a line. And then the case is closed. BBB is not at all concerned what the reply is about.
In other words BBB is a useless institution. Worst, you have trust on BBB and that trust is shattered.
Why Does BBB exist
Well BBB is not a place to address your complaints. Never waste your time on BBB for you complaint addressal. BBB sells the BBB Certifications to companies. And this is where is makes money from. That money brings the bread and butter for its employees. If we rely upon the report http://www.ripoffreport.com/Better-Business-Bureau/Better-Business-Bure/better-business-bureau-or-buye-eq4fb.htm as reported by consumers then BBB encourages and solicits money from the very businesses they monitor! How could this be beneficial to the consumer ?
Read from that report - “What the BBB does, is give the business that is being reported the opportunity to respond. If the business responds many times this is enough to give the business a satisfactory rating, no matter what their response is!”.
What is ridiculous is that the if the business responds just once, the story ends. BBB does not care if they responded subsequently. The businesses still get satisfactory rating. The above article in rippoff report says that - “The BBB does provide a mediation service, but the BBB cannot force the business to do anything for you to resolve your consumer rip-off. They can only make suggestions. And if the business does not comply, this will not insure an unsatisfactory rating for the business that ripped you off.”. In my case however, BBB did not tell that they are ready to mediate.
You may also like to check http://bbbroundup.com/. According to the report – “of two similar businesses, the Los Angeles Times and the San Francisco Chronicle–both major market, reputable newspapers from February 2009. There are two differences between them: 1) They are graded by two different regional BBB offices (Los Angeles and San Francisco) and 2) the San Francisco Chronicle is a BBB member, the Los Angeles Times is not. This suggests either members are favored over non-members or different regions grade differently.”
If you have trusted BBB so far, it is because you have not gone to them to have any of your concern as consumer addressed.
I’ve long maintained that the BBB was a useless institution. This just confirms my suspicions. Thanks for the head’s up.
Agreed they are absolutely worthless. File a complaint on an autobody repair. Because I did not request any monetary compensation the complaint basically goes to BBB’s file and the Company’s file and the Company’s rating remains A+. BBB called this a “letter of experience”. I will never rely on BBB’s info again it basically Company paid accreditation.
Wow, I wished I read this before I went to the BBB, they did exactly what was mentioned…completely nothing for me!
LOL Wow you must not have a good BBB where your from. I have a great one here. Follows through, does investigations, holds business accountable and notes their record if they fail to respond or don’t resolve the dispute, which DOES effect a company’s grade. I have done alot of research and a good portion of a company’s grade is based on complaint history. If a company that has 500,000 customers has 1 complaint it is graded differently than a company with 500 customers and 1 complaint. BBB’s are non-profit, they don’t “make” money, it goes to the community. My suggestion, get some solid research under your belt and don’t throw the institution under the bus because your BBB situation wasn’t handled appropriatey. Each BBB is run differently, but adheres to a core set of principles. Making money is not one of them.
Sarah duke,
The whole point is – BBB is useless and completely worthless for an individual. Individuals are in the impression that BBB will support them and help them in case they get cheated or some fraud happens with them. It turns out that this is not the case that happened. BBB does absolutely nothing for customers when they are cheated by any company. And this is not just John’s case or Bob’s case. This is true of each and every individual.
Your assertion is absolutely true that “If a company that has 500,000 customers has 1 complaint it is graded differently than a company with 500 customers and 1 complaint.”. The point here is that the 1 customer who files the complaint to BBB does get absolutely no benefit from BBB as far as his particular case is concerned. The BBB just records is and that’s it. It does help BBB “in rating the company”.
This is different from what a person in general has the image of BBB in mind when he proceeds to BBB with a complaint. In other words, the customers are working for BBB rather than the other way round.
As far as the word “non-profit” is concerned it is misunderstood by people misused by the organizations ]. In most “non-profit” organizations, – the persons working at non-profit do get paid for the work they are doing. So, if BBB is not paid by the companies, the employees do not get paid. The persons working at BBB do have an interest to see the BBB gets customers. The BBB and any other non-profit organization, for that matter, do have a business model. And there is nothing wrong in it. The wrong thing is to use the word “non-profit”.
LOL No just for a few unfortunate individuals. The BBB has helped me when a company cheated me, and 3 of my co-workers were able to get help from the BBB when a scam was going on in our area. Again just because YOUR BBB didn’t handle YOUR complaint correctly, that does not mean that every BBB is useless. Talk to people the BBB has helped instead of having a biased article that is strictly anti-BBB. Look at both sides. Each BBB is run differently by different Presidents. You have no idea how the BBB responds to complaints. I went in person to my BBB and saw here they handle complaints. They are responded to, heard conversations between the BBB and the business being complained about. The fact is that the BBB can’t force companies to respond. If the company does not operate ethically and respond to the compaint that is not the BBB’s fault. What do you propose, send the BBB down to the business and demand a response. No instead the company’s grade is affected which DOES help future customers avoid that unethical company and costs the company business. So your situation, which is unfortunate, probably helped others to see how the company you dealt with treated you. And NO customers don’t work for the BBB what an ignorant statement. My BBB last year dealt with over 100,000 complaints alone, 86% were resolved within 18 days, in favor of both parties. The BBB is a neutral entity, it does not take sides! Do your research my word!! It is Non profit!!! The BBB pays it’s employees to handle complaints, it’s not a group of volunteers, but it is non profit in that what is left after minimal compensation to employees (minimum wage) the rest goes to the community. The fact is you are ignorant on HOW the BBB works! Your BBB is not a good one, but again there are over 114 BBB’s nationwide!!! One bad one doesn’t make the whole organization bad.
BTW the BBB does not have “customers”, the general public doesn’t pay a dime to use the BBB, business pay to fund the organization. Why is Target with the BBB, and Best Buy and Supervalu?? It’s not like they aren’t household names, but the BBB helps the community and that is why they support it.
I will encourage everyone to read the blog
http://www.thebluesmokeband.com/bbb.php.
Some excerpts
Enter The Better Business Bureau. Until last week, I thought that the BBB was a government-run organization, funded by my tax dollars. I thought that it was a neutral observer of business standards and practices, a place where one could get information on a legitimate business or where one could lodge a formal complaint against a shady one. Just about none of this is true.
The BBB is not run by the government, but they do a lot of business with the FTC — at least that’s what I hear. They are a non-profit, charity organization known as a 501(c)(3). This means that whatever money you donate to their cause is tax-deductible. The money that you donate is supposed to go into programs and charitable causes. The organization is supposed to report their income, report their board of directors, report about their programs, and so on. This information appears on IRS form 990.
990s are public information. So, with my wife’s help, I got hold of the 990 for our local BBB. Turns out, they report no income, no board of directors, no contractors who earn over $50,000 per year, and they have no programs. All they appear to have is -$849 in assets. This is, to say the least, shady.
I completely agree that the BBB is useless, and I’d never waste my time reporting a company again. They might resolve issues sometimes, but unless the business really WANTS to make an effort to satisfy the customer, and that isn’t likely to happen, the customer is out of luck. No, the BBB doesn’t have ‘customers’. People here are using the word ‘customer’ because they made a purchase for goods and services in good faith. They were a ‘customer’ of the business. Anyone helped by the BBB is fortunate. The case usually ends up closed – period. The business isn’t forced to do anything. They’re not held accountable. Why would they be? It isn’t a court. Being a member of the BBB means nothing because the businesses never look bad no matter the outcome. If you want an example, take a look at the outcome of complaints. You don’t even get details regarding the problems. It’s a joke. Businesses pay to become members of the BBB, and they have the upper hand. Customer service no longer exists in many businesses.
Contacting the BBB was a complete waste of time in my case. I was ripped off by a crooked construction company, and the BBB couldn’t do a thing about it because the ‘owner’ had no intention of doing the right thing. If you feel you have a case, take it to court a.s.a.p., and don’t waste precious time going back and forth with the BBB. Don’t count on regaining your loses even if you win the case. If the company files bankruptcy you’re out of luck anyway, and fraud is very difficult and very costly to prove.
LOL Ok again, one-sided commentary. I guess if you want to bitch about your experience, with YOUR BBB go right ahead. Mine happens to be a great one and there has been no complaints in our area regarding the BBB, and you can find information regarding programs and board of directors quite easily. If you want to find somthing negative in everything, guess what, you’ll find it. I prefer to remain positive.
You are right Kimberly, your BBB couldn’t make your dishonest contractor behave ethically but your complaint could lead to the company getting an F rating if unanswered or at least lowering their grade. Future consumers could get this information and decide to not do business with him/her based on that info. Before you invest, investigate. Our website provides information on companies and tips and links on how to be a smarter consumer. We provide free shredding services to consumers, speakers to schools and social organizations on many topics, our military line program educates our troops on scams and ripoffs. And our website continues to gain strength as more and more consumers go there for help in their buying decisions. And while BBB is not perfect (and who is), we have saved countless consumers from getting ripped off and we have resolved millions of complaints to the satisfaction of the consumer. You were dealing with a crook, what did you expect?
Yes I have had the exact same experience. As a matter of fact BBB accepts fees from the businesses that want to maintain the status of “Accredited Busines” that is clearly a conflict of interest. I wonder how come the government or anybody objects to this kind of biased mediation? It should be illegal in my opinion. In my opinion, BBB is not for consumers it actually protects the interest of businesses.
Again the BBB does not side with business or consumers! The BBB is neutral! And you don’t pay a fee to stay Accredited, you have to maintain sound business practices, that is how a company becomes accredited. My word ignorance must be bliss.
Sarah Duke – Please do some reality check before you post your next comment. Read the following content from the BBBs own website.
http://www.bbb.org/us/Business-Accreditation/
Moderator – Please include the following in my post# 14.
This is an example of what BBB charges to maintain Accredited Status.
http://louisville.bbb.org/dues/
Ohhhh! Booyah Sarah Duke! Where you at now?
I agree with you completely. I have personal experience with the BBB as I have recently filed a claim only to be told they closed it administratively when the issue was not resolved. I thought they were required to help the consumer, but this do not appear to be the case.
Speaking from experience here people, don’t waste your time with the BBB. And just because the business has a good rating with the BBB doesn’t mean anything. Case in point: a car dealer in Framingham and Marlborough, MA has 26 complaints in the past 36 months, and an ‘A’ rating. (LOL!) As long as the business pays the BBB to be accredited, the consumer will always lose. The BBB is a complete waste of time, and is a *total and complete joke.* Go to your attorney general, or get a lawyer.
@ Tim
Another thing to consider is that some of the people who file complaints are idiots.
I have had several people file complaints just because they didn’t want to abide by my terms and conditions.
my terms and conditions are completely realistic so if you don’t agree with them don’t buy. its real simple math.
another did not read her emails so thought she was being ignored.
well how do I fix that? i’m supposed to teach someone how to use email now?..lol
seriously.. it works both ways…
just because someone files a complaint it does not automatically make them right and the business wrong or bad..
There are a lot of people out there who think “the customer is always right” regardless of the circumstance..they also think that gives them the right to act rude and ridiculous. there should be a BCB “Better Customer Bureau” if you ask me.
The BBB is not a police institution. They are merely a watchdog group.
I had a case with them that went to arbritration and I won it. The BBB has no authority to make the company, that I had a beef with, pay me.
My next step was to go to court which I have not done yet. They have, however, taken the company’s good rating away and show that there are two unsettled claims against them.
That was my goal and I am satisfied with them.
I’m Windering why Sarah can’t seem to say her piece and move on.. The only time the bbb has handled any of my complaints correctly is when the company im complaining against follows the law and settles. The bbb is laid by the businesses it is protecting. I let one of them
have it today. Sarah is the only one on this thread acting like they need saintdom… Follow your own advice Sarah. Your ONE good experience doesn’t negate all of the obvious misrepresesentation. Get a life and shut up and move on
AlterWalter you were lucky… A lot of these bbb ppl apparently don’t take their job seriously. I had one say that my case was settled efficiently when a lawyer for the company wrote a letter saying that Rey could confirm or deny nothing according to Colorado law. They are reporting a LIE on my report and told me to contact them (again) rather than them contacting me. The bbb in my home town is the same way… Totally stupid and not reporting legitimate (Jason) complaints. Where do you go to complain about the bbb caseworker idiots who aren’t doing THEIR job. I agree their ‘trust’ would make the definition mean nothing … They need to evaluate their caseworkers and hold them accountable or remove the ‘trust’ word from their advertising. Two workers I’ve dealt with in two different stated didn’t even know common —-common knowledge FTC law. Gimme a break! Evaluate!! Ha
Ah yes you pay a fee ONLY after you are accepted by the BBB for meeting and maintaining standards. Why don’t you do a reality check! Why didn’t you see that standards have to be met first. Maybe your BBB doesn’t adhere to standards, but mine does. Too bad for you!
Oh my look at that right from your link…accredited by the BBB means the BBB determined the business has met standards. Fees are paid for the review/monitoring and to support BBB services. WOW thanks for the link you proved my point!
If a business has been accredited by the BBB, it means BBB has determined that the business meets accreditation standards which include a commitment to make a good faith effort to resolve any consumer complaints. BBB accredited businesses pay a fee for accreditation review/monitoring and for support of BBB services to the public.
BBB Code of Business Practices represents standards for business accreditation by BBB. Businesses based in the United States and Canada that meet these standards and complete all application procedures will be accredited by BBB. The Code is built on the BBB Standards for Trust, eight principles that summarize important elements of creating and maintaining trust in business.
BBB accreditation does not mean that the business’ products or services have been evaluated or endorsed by BBB, or that BBB has made a determination as to the business’ product quality or competency in performing services.
Businesses are under no obligation to seek BBB accreditation, and some businesses are not accredited because they have not sought BBB accreditation.
There’s my piece. The BBB does not deserve saintdom but when you can’t provide facts for what you are stating, that’s where I have an issue. Quite frankly our BBB does a great job. It’s too bad yours does not. It makes me wonder why you are so upset on this board and make personal attacks on people (ie: Sarah is a Psycho? get a life?) Maybe you have something to prove to people or lack self-esteem. I would look into that. Ba-bye
B.B.B. is useless and misleading. They solve absolutely nothing and tell you when you TRY to address an issue to go to the Labor Board or Civil Rights.It’s a dead end road for everyone other than the business’s involved. The company pay’s to be protected is about all B.B.B. amounts to.
I don’t know what state sarah duke is talking about but it’s obviously not Colo.
In case anyone is still not getting it, Sarah Duke is a BBB plant.
@sarah duke
Wrong again…(sigh). I’m a business owner. The BBB got me on the phone and went through their banter and told me “all we need to finish today and get started together is the credit card you’d like to use.”
Oh, unless of course she considered our 3 minute phone conversation sufficient evidence of our obvious adherence to the lauded BBB standards.I politely told her that we’d not be joining at that time.
BBB is an anachronism. I maintain my own standard of ethics and answer to myself. BBB is like one of those “who’s who” ripoffs where you pay for inclusion in some useless list.
Read Jason’s post above. That guy is a business owner, and he knows the deal. Disgruntled customers with an axe to grind and a self-endowed license to be rude and non-compliant with terms of service use it as a threat. They don’t realize that it’s a toothless threat.
I’ll spend my $405/year on an employee party.
It is interesting reading this. I have contacted the BBB in 3 cities on three different occasions about incidents. Each time they did absolutely nothing. Why would they? I am a citizens and not a member of the BBB.
the companies are paying members. You can’t tell me that doesn’t make a difference. If they upset their membership by ruling against them they might lose some cash.
A totally worthless and misleading organization. Not only that but deceptively making the public think they are working to make the playing field level. Only thing missing is that they don’t charge you to make a complaint. Oh I better not give them any ideas.
My experience as a business owner is that the BBB is out to extort money from businesses.
I also don’t know what BBB Sarah is talking about, but mine sucks as well. With all due respect Sarah, you seem to know an awful lot about your BBB, and it wouldn’t surprise me if you either work there or have someone close to you who does. Unfortunately, it seems yours may be the only worthwhile BBB to speak of.
My God! I have been putting my trust in BBB for settling a case in which the pavement contractor refuses to finish the driveway project upon having collecting the down payment worth 70% of full payment. … then, where shall I go to seek help? A local mafia? does a mafia charge a lot?
People, be reasonable. Nobody at BBB promised you your money back or satisfaction guaranteed. Who the hell said they gonna go and beat out that refund from that contractor, business, whoever???
They log incoming complaints and businesses’ answers and show ratings. They make some money on accreditation. They are there for local community ’cause they show where not to buy.
What I see is that furniture store I’m bitching with now has got 28 complaints (18 unresolved) and F rating. Store across the road has got 2 complaints, both resolved, B+ rating. Both stores are not accredited.
Where would you go for your next sofa learned that the easier way?
Here is your proof of the value of BBB:
AFNI, a clearly disreputable collection agency, (just google their name and you will be flooded with poor people freaked out about being dunned for accounts never opened and car accidents they weren’t at fault and very very scary practices) here’s just one place keeping tabs:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/debt/afni_p2.html
Now, for giggles and grins go and look at the AFNI home page:
https://www.afnicollections.com/
and look in the lower right corner and there is the stars-and-stripes of confidence-building logos, that’s right, the BBB Online Reliability Program, where you click and see that AFNI has an A+ rating. That’s right folks, A+. It’s virtually impossible for a sentient being, whether or not they have had an interaction with AFNI, not to be able to see what they are all about but take heart, the BBB is here to tell you to TRUST THEM.
Of course collection agencies are a special breed of company with a special type of “ethics,” but there are many out there that don’t have the level and detail of complaints registered against them. Ms. Duke and some of the others in this discussion may have a positive view of their local BBB and they just might be good folk doing a good job. But BEWARE, and I mean be VERY AWARE, that the online BBB is just a place to take $ from companies so they can slap the logo on their website for a sense of legitimacy. Yeah, BBB is a complete waste when it comes to consumers. Do your own research, ask trusted friends and family and don’t place any stock in BBB (at least the online version of it!).
“You are all unfortunate. Too bad you can’t live by me and enjoy MY BBB. Blah blah blah.”
Interesting comments.
BBB is an organization that is used as a means of screening and eliminating complaints lodged against it’s paying members (local businessess). I challenge you to even locate their local office phone number! If the company you are thinking of hiring says”Member of BBB”. THEN DON’T BOTHER CALLING THEM!
Called and set up appointment with A&L roofing in Terre Haute. They never came nor called. When we called them they said didn’t have us set up till following Monday (this was on a Sat.) I reminded them they even asked what time we got up in the AM so they could get here early. Responce was “do you want me to come now?” It was now 12:30. They promised to be here around 9AM. Told them no and expressed our disappointment in their lack or professionalism. WOULD NOT RECOMMEND A COMPANY THAT DOESN’T BOTHER TO SHOW UP EVEN FOR JOB ESTIMATES. ONE CAN ONLY IMAGINE THEIR LACK OF RELIABILITY ONCE THEY HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN GIVEN MONEY UP FRONT FOR A JOB!
this is a joke, the BBB is just protecting its paying members…
I couldn’t agree with you more. I think the BBB is completely useless and is one of the biggest scams in the country. It’s just an institution to make money. Their business model is to create an institution, then market AGAINST those who don’t join, and collect membership fees.
mjolnir- you almost made me laugh when you said “I maintain my own standard of ethics and answer to myself”. Doesn’t every business think they are a good company? Do you think the fly by night contractors go around thinking, “wow I am a crook”!?? Really? Thank goodness there is a BBB to monitor companies just like you. I am not a business owner but if I was one I would definitely want to support ethics in the community and as a consumer I would never do business with someone that said “oh, I am not a crook, I maintain my OWN standard of ethics! If that worked so well the BBB wouldn’t have been created over 100 years ago.
If you actually believe that BBB are of any real value you have clearly been toking for too long. They gave an A- to a damned Middle East terror group, what does that say to you? Next they will be accrediting the scumbag Orange County Skinheads or the Bloods for their work in “educating the youth”